Curse

Popeye1906 · Jan 30, 2010, 11:33 PM // 23:33

I ran with Discoway a lot, but spamming 1234 as a conditions ranger to fuel discord got boring.

I vanquished Most of proph 4 man areas playing a SoS ranger with Vekk as a searing flame spammer with ward and healing E/M, Gwen as a domination/illusion mesmer and Livia as playmate of the... OUPS!! i ment N/Rt healer.

Only hard part was the grawl shamans with their heal spamming, but if there was less then 2 of them it was not much of a problem.

When i got to the 6 man area i went with a 2 discord ( Livia as MM Rt healer, MoW as curse doscord Necro) and a para hero with Anthem of flame, They're on fire and Blazing Finale. Everything is always burning and the whole team takes way less dmg.

For the south shiverpeaks, im gonna try to go as conjure fire barrage, with a modified version of my para and a fire ele hero with mark of Rodgort.

I there is 1 thing i learned in my 3 year of reading GURU, its that you gotta synergize your team build, and, no matter how crappy that team build can be, it will always be better then a crappy team build that dont synergize.

As for the part where your warrior hero runs around like a headless chicken when you switch target, try locking him on it before selecting another minion wannabe.

HigherMinion · Jan 30, 2010, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

why ootv ?

isnt aotl's recharge very long ? why do you like it then ?

also, does ootv affect minions ?

what is the purpose of fallback really ? general IMS to get from places to places quickly or do you rely on it as a kind of healing ? seeing how fallback "Ends for an ally if that ally hits with an attack." i guess it's only for healing casters then ? o.o

also, you know that heroes only cast AotL after it has expired right ? o.o check wikipedia entry .

OoV because I bring physical hench/heroes+physical friend generally.

OoV affects Party Members only. ie. No minions.

Fallback is used as a general IMS, yes. It also heals Minions and allows them to keep up. AotL raises alot of corpses in a short amount of time, when it's recharging, Animate Bone minions usually keeps Livia full of minions. That, er, wasn't a euphemism.

It's better than Jagged Bones when it comes to speed certainly. And I know about the bug, heroes only cast it after it expires, but I generally tend to micro it if I notice it about to end. It's not a bother though, still 11 Minion count.

Lusciious · Jan 31, 2010, 08:57 AM // 08:57

that extra point in DM don't really matter huh ? i'll try it now

i find that in enchant removal heavy areas, when ER gets stripped, vekk doesn't recast it even though recharge is already over and he has more than enough energy . he uses another skill or 2 before casting ER .

how do you use your n/a mop nuker ? do you cast AP at the start of the match or before he's about to die ?

is this orders build better ?

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:D/N_...Orders_Dervish

HigherMinion · Jan 31, 2010, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

that extra point in DM don't really matter huh ? i'll try it now

i find that in enchant removal heavy areas, when ER gets stripped, vekk doesn't recast it even though recharge is already over and he has more than enough energy . he uses another skill or 2 before casting ER .

how do you use your n/a mop nuker ? do you cast AP at the start of the match or before he's about to die ?

is this orders build better ?

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:D/N_...Orders_Dervish

When using MoP as the primary source of damage, you Cast in this general order:
MoP, Rigor if the foe blocks, Barbs.

Sometimes you start with Reckless, sometimes MoP is useless therefore you cast Barbs first, etc.

That Orders build is pretty rubbish compared to a N/Rt one with heals. It was "good" because Vow of piety healed for quite alot; but now it's a stance, and it does bugger all for your team.

Also the extra 4 points in Blood are noticeable in damage/life gain.

Yeah, Vekk will cast a few before ER; it's annoying but it generally still works fine, if you can kill fast enough.

Lusciious · Jan 31, 2010, 12:48 PM // 12:48

You mean great .

When do you cast AP ? When the foe is at 30% or at 50% ? or lower ? higher maybe ?

I cast mine at the start of the match . I dont like having to try cast AP and a spike on the foe caused me to not get AP in on time . then i have to find another foe to recharge my skills .

Anyway,

In low corpse areas, what do you swap your MM out for ?

Is there a OotV build somewhere on PvX ? Can't find one .

edit: AotL is freakishly fun .

Personally, my SoS rit does higher damage than 3 physicals buffed with OotV

and she heals with 14 restoration and buffs physicals with a 14 splinter weapon .

HigherMinion · Jan 31, 2010, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

You mean great .

When do you cast AP ? When the foe is at 30% or at 50% ? or lower ? higher maybe ?

I cast mine at the start of the match . I dont like having to try cast AP and a spike on the foe caused me to not get AP in on time . then i have to find another foe to recharge my skills .

Anyway,

In low corpse areas, what do you swap your MM out for ?

Is there a OotV build somewhere on PvX ? Can't find one .

Low corpse areas I either bring a paragon or a ranger with a pet. Apparently there's an OoV build on "trial" on PvX... Check that out.

I cast AP usually after I've cast Barbs. Depends on their health, how rapidly it drops. I don't use Discord so they don't die instantly; I believe you do, however?

Lusciious · Jan 31, 2010, 02:10 PM // 14:10

i used to . i got tired of constantly calling . and if you don't call, discord doesnt seem to work properly .

i'm using an AotL MM like you mentioned .

AotL, Rising Bile, Animate bone minions, death nova, masochism sp?, prot spirit, aegis, dwayna's sorrow.

Death magic 12+1+1
Soul reaping 8+1
Protection prayers 9
Healing prayers 5

Should i get a sup death rune ?

ER protter

Energy storage 12+1+1
Prot 12

same build as yours

and an SoS Hybrid

SoS, Painful bond, Spirit Siphon, life, protective was kaolai, spirit light, mend body and soul and splinter weapon.

Channeling 12+2
Restoration 12+1+1 or the otherway round. both works.

HigherMinion · Jan 31, 2010, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

i used to . i got tired of constantly calling . and if you don't call, discord doesnt seem to work properly .

i'm using an AotL MM like you mentioned .

AotL, Rising Bile, Animate bone minions, death nova, masochism sp?, prot spirit, aegis, dwayna's sorrow.

Death magic 12+1+1
Soul reaping 8+1
Protection prayers 9
Healing prayers 5

Should i get a sup death rune ?

ER protter

Energy storage 12+1+1
Prot 12

same build as yours

and an SoS Hybrid

SoS, Painful bond, Spirit Siphon, life, protective was kaolai, spirit light, mend body and soul and splinter weapon.

Channeling 12+2
Restoration 12+1+1 or the otherway round. both works.

You will want 16 death on any MM build, so yes Sup rune on headpiece.
Never liked Dwayna's sorrow other than a cover-enchant. The healing doesn't really do much for me, would rather take another prot or hex removal.

Also, if this is for physicals, why bother with SoS? It creates 3 damage-dealing spirits that can't move. I don't find it practical in this setup.

Daesu · Jan 31, 2010, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Even though I try to customize each set of heroes to my character's build, here are some general ideas I have:

For a Dervish (Enchantment-philic):

Rt/Mo SoS, Splinter, SoH, Smite Hex, Smite Condition
N/Rt Fiend MM, curses, Enfeebling blood OR NMo OOV, BR, Enfeebling blood, Curse
E/Mo ER Protect, Enchantment heals, Dwayna's Sorrow

For an Imbagon (Shout-philic):

N/Mo Emphatic Removal, MM, Curse, Enfeebling Blood
P/Rt SoS, Spinter, Command, Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Disruption, Gfte
P/Mo Anthem of Fury, Motivation heals, SoH

For a Warrior or general physicals:

E/Mo ER Protect/Smite, SoH
Rt SoS, Splinter, some restore heals

N/Rt Aotl, MM, Curse/Enfeebling Blood or N/Rt SoGM, Communing offensive spirits, Curse/Enfeebling Blood
OR
Rt/N Ritual Lord, Communing Offensive/Defensive Spirits, Enfeebling blood OR P SoR Motigon

For a SoS Channeling SS Rit with Painful Bond (Spirit-philic):

Communing/Command Rit:

[build prof=Rt/P][Spirit Siphon][Disenchantment or Pain][Signet of Ghostly Might][Armor of Unfeeling][Anthem of Disruption][Shadowsong][Anguish][Flesh of My Flesh or Anthem of Weariness][/build]

Restoration Rit:

[build prof=Rt/?][Xinrae's Weapon][Weapon of Warding][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Flesh of My Flesh][Spirit Siphon][Protective Was Kaolai][Soothing Memories or Life][/build]

minion bomber MM:

[build prof=N/Mo][Aura of the Lich or Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][Enfeebling Blood or SoLS][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Resurrection Chant][/build]

For general casters (besides discordway):

NMo Aotl, MM, with Dwayna's Sorrow/Protect OR E/Mo ER Protect/Heal
NRt Restoration Healer + Curses/Enfeebling Blood
Rt SoS Spirit Spammer

For heroes that cannot use PvE skills, using minions become one of the most effective choices in general, so I like using a SoS Rit and a MM if possible. You should assume HM for these builds and these ideas are a combination of others and my own.

Lusciious · Jan 31, 2010, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Also, if this is for physicals, why bother with SoS? It creates 3 damage-dealing spirits that can't move. I don't find it practical in this setup.

Well OotV only buffs the physicals in your team . and in your team, there is probably no more than 3 other physicals, you as the MoP nuker, an MM, a physical buffer and 2 monks.

How much more damage can you get from OotV ? 15 x 4 = 60 .
SoS on the other hand deals 30 x 3 - 90 . which can be increased to 50 x 3 by painful bond . Their damage is armour ignoring as well .

An SoS Rit can probably heal more than that blood of well + nightmare weapon .

I don't think you need that many weapon spells . I don't know how heroes cast weapon spells and who they prioritize . Splinter weapon is usually enough .

Okay you help your physicals by giving them mark of fury . that's something a rit cannot do .

You can strip an enchant, I have Rigor Mortis . I don't see a need for enchant removal when you have so many minions + 3 physicals + 90 armour ignoring damage . They die too fast . There's no point stripping fire attunement off an ele boss because you already know that bosses have insane HP / MP Regen / Pool . And PI finishes the job faster .

I don't see a need for ressurection skills because I don't plan on dying . Do you ?

So the only thing your OotV can do better than my Rit is buffing physicals with mark of fury . Oh and it's not a spammable skill with a 10 recharge . Since you're gonna buff them with additional damage, Mark of Fury is gonna take a longer time to recharge than compared to the time taken for a foe to die .

If it takes you less than 30 seconds to finish a group, take into consideration the time required to move on to the next group . I have no troubles keeping SoS up before i enter a any match . I like taking on mobs at one time so yeah .. Haven't died once yet .

As suggested, I might get a hex removal . I have enough prots from that ER Protter already . lol .

Quote:

an activation time of 2 seconds

thats how fast spirits attack . It's even better than discord once you get PB on the foe (usually bosses since they last longer) .

Do correct me if i'm wrong .

HigherMinion · Feb 01, 2010, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Well OotV only buffs the physicals in your team . and in your team, there is probably no more than 3 other physicals, you as the MoP nuker, an MM, a physical buffer and 2 monks.

How much more damage can you get from OotV ? 15 x 4 = 60 .
SoS on the other hand deals 30 x 3 - 90 . which can be increased to 50 x 3 by painful bond . Their damage is armour ignoring as well .

An SoS Rit can probably heal more than that blood of well + nightmare weapon .

I don't think you need that many weapon spells . I don't know how heroes cast weapon spells and who they prioritize . Splinter weapon is usually enough .

Okay you help your physicals by giving them mark of fury . that's something a rit cannot do .

You can strip an enchant, I have Rigor Mortis . I don't see a need for enchant removal when you have so many minions + 3 physicals + 90 armour ignoring damage . They die too fast . There's no point stripping fire attunement off an ele boss because you already know that bosses have insane HP / MP Regen / Pool . And PI finishes the job faster .

I don't see a need for ressurection skills because I don't plan on dying . Do you ?

So the only thing your OotV can do better than my Rit is buffing physicals with mark of fury . Oh and it's not a spammable skill with a 10 recharge . Since you're gonna buff them with additional damage, Mark of Fury is gonna take a longer time to recharge than compared to the time taken for a foe to die .

If it takes you less than 30 seconds to finish a group, take into consideration the time required to move on to the next group . I have no troubles keeping SoS up before i enter a any match . I like taking on mobs at one time so yeah .. Haven't died once yet .

As suggested, I might get a hex removal . I have enough prots from that ER Protter already . lol .

thats how fast spirits attack . It's even better than discord once you get PB on the foe (usually bosses since they last longer) .

Do correct me if i'm wrong .

Firstly, spirit's attack every two seconds. Your physicals will be attacking at eith +25/33% IAS, therefore inflicting more damage in the same time frame. Also OoV heals while dealing damage.

Spirits are easily destructible. Also it doesn't take me long to get through a mob, and to run to the next one I either have Essence or Fall Back.

OoV doesn't buff just the physicals, it also buffs the casters with spears, which occurs alot not. Lifesteal goes through all the prots... Except LS and RoF.

Lusciious · Feb 01, 2010, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Oh yeah .. casters with spears . forgot about that one .

The 2 rangers and 1 warrior hench i take along do not always have IAS on .

True about the point where spirits are easily destructible but thats what minions are for, bodyblocking enemies so that no one gets to your spirits .

I don't use consumables .

Armour ignoring damage does not go through prots .. I didn't know that >.>

Alright then . OotV wins

I have 6/7 physicals .

MoP Nuker + Spear
ER Protter + Spear 20% enchant + Focus
MM + Spear + Focus
OotV + Spear + Focus

6 physicals = 1 monk, 2 rangers, 1 warrior
7 physicals = 1 human warrior, 2 physicals, 1 monk with spear .

OotV would stack up to do a lot of damage .

Thanks for helping me to realise that OotV is much better .

I should try to make a build that uses OotV, Heals and Supports.

When i make a good one, i'll post it here .

edit: Should my MM and OotV Hybrid use a 20% enchant mod or a +30hp mod ? The only thing viable that i think would benefit from the 20% enchant mod are the prots on the MM . I want them to spam OotV as much as possible without me micro-ing therefore i don't want it to last for 60+ seconds ( 100+20% enchant)

On OotV, a 20% mod would only increase it by 1 second.

edit2: I have decided to go with +30 hp . once i change my MM's secondary from mo to something else e.g. paragon, the 20% enchant mod would become useless.

Trader of Secrets · Feb 01, 2010, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Yeah really, reading the first post reminds me why I avoid melee hero and hench because they spend most of their time running around because your target is changing.

Lusciious · Feb 01, 2010, 02:52 AM // 02:52

That's why we use rangers (at least I do)

HigherMinion · Feb 01, 2010, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

That's why we use rangers (at least I do)

Yeah, and if you want a good ranger hero:
Incendiary Arrows, Rapid Fire, Comfort Animal-
Lots of MoP triggers, especially if you take lots of 1/4 casts.

OoV is alot more maintainable with that extra one second duration, believe it or not.

Lusciious · Feb 01, 2010, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Incendiary arrow sounds good . However, it can be swapped with daze if needed yeah ? Daze + Volley ?

mage767 · Feb 01, 2010, 09:30 AM // 09:30

I don't use any of the crappy PvE meta that brainwashed everyone.

I customize my heroes to main prof and to area.

My best hero team does 73k damage (its a modified physical way) at Master of Damage.

Crassus Praetor · Feb 01, 2010, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Over what period of time?

Anything can do 73k damage if you leave it long enough

Lusciious · Feb 01, 2010, 02:35 PM // 14:35

A paragon might be a good substitute to an MM . A paragon with pet ?

MasterSasori · Feb 01, 2010, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

True about the point where spirits are easily destructible but thats what minions are for, bodyblocking enemies so that no one gets to your spirits .

I find that the MM is useful myself. The walls really help keep things out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

edit: Should my MM and OotV Hybrid use a 20% enchant mod or a +30hp mod ? The only thing viable that i think would benefit from the 20% enchant mod are the prots on the MM . I want them to spam OotV as much as possible without me micro-ing therefore i don't want it to last for 60+ seconds ( 100+20% enchant)

The 20% enchant mod is very useful - Aegis, PS, and OoV. OoV's extra 1 second is actually pretty useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

edit2: I have decided to go with +30 hp . once i change my MM's secondary from mo to something else e.g. paragon, the 20% enchant mod would become useless.

Why paragon? I would go either /Mo for PS + Aegis or /Me for rupts. Rupts really help alot when in HM and you have a decent protter such as the E/Mo infuser.

BTW I also wouldn't use a Paragon with a pet. Minion wall is for wall and Paragons don't need to spread their stats anymore than they already are.

EDIT: Nvm I see what the Paragon secondary is for. I still prefer my interrupt version. I see someone meddled with my build on PvX wiki but whatever (probably minion >.>). The community will decide how it will work best. Looking forward to opinions.